SPOILER THREAD: Star Wars - Episode 8

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Warning: Wer den Film noch nicht gesehen hat und hier weiter liest, ist selbst schuld.

Wie viele von euch sicher wissen, bin ich ein ziemlich großer Star Wars-Fan.
Habe alle Episoden zigmal gesehen, die klassische Trilogie im jeweils dreistelligen Bereich, die Prequels und Rogue One sicher je >20 Mal.
Selbst Episode 7, den ich für cool gestyltes Remake von Episode 4 halte, habe ich sicher an die zehn Mal geschaut.

Seit Kleinauf, also etwa 1982, bin ich Star Wars verfallen.
Mir hat immer das phantastische, aber dennoch glaubwüdige Universum gefallen.
Die Bösartigkeit des Imperiums, die Verzweiflung der Rebellion.

Viele Figuren haben in den Episoden eine interessante, wenn auch nicht immer schöne Entwicklung genommen.
Zum Beispiel Luke Skywalker, der vom optimistischen Sunnyboy (Episode 4) zum ernsthaften, nachdenklichen Jedi-Ritter (Episode 6) wurde.

Was ich aber an Charakterentwicklung in den EPisoden 7 und 8 erleben musste, stinkt mir gewaltig.
Luke ist aufeinmal ein merkwürdiger Eremit, der das so pahtetisch von Rey empfangene Lichtschwert, sein Lichtschwert bzw. das seines Vaters, achtlos über die Schulter wirft.
Der eine überdimensionale Rüsselmilchkuh melkt und dem der grün-gelbe Sabber im Bart hängen bleibt.
Der mit einer riesen Stange über den Abgrund zu gleiten scheint, am Ende aber nur einen riesigen Fisch 100 Meter tiefer aufspießt.

Was war das denn? Slapstick kann man das nicht nennen. Das war einfach nur schlecht und out of character.

Dass sich Luke nach seinem "Versagen" mit Kylo Renn zurückzieht, kein Jedi mehr sein will - alles im Ansatz gut und richtig.
Aber warum muss man das so lächerlich umsetzen? Warum wirft er das Lichtschwert achtlos über die Schulter als sei es eine leere Bananenschale?
Warum nicht weit ausholen und das Schwert in den Abgrund werfen, so wie es Sir Bedivere mit Excalibur tat.
Vielleicht mit Schmerz in der Stimme und den Augen. Vielleicht sogar etwas Hass, weil gerade dieses Lichtschwert so viel Leid über ihn und die Galaxis brachte.

Dazu dieser unsägliche Poe Dameron, der in bester Superheldenmanier - ohne Macht-Fähigkeit - durch die versammelte imperiale Armada pflügt.
Fynn, der wie ein Tolpatsch aus dem Krankenbett fällt und mit leckenden Schläuchen durch den halben Raumkreuzer bis zum Hanger watschelt, ohne dass ihn auch nur irgendwer fragt, was er da macht.
Leia, die wie Supergirl ohne Atemmaske nach überstandenen Explosion und Dekompression à la Wonder Woman durchs Weltalt fliegt und den Stunt natürlich mehr oder weniger unbeschadet überlebt.
Einer Vize-Admiralin, die mit pinken Haaren und Ballkleid das Kommando übernimmt, keinem ihrer Stabsoffiziere ihren Plan erklärt und diese so zur Meuterei motiviert.
Einem Superhacker, den man laut Maz Kanata dringend braucht, der am Ende aber nur 10 Sekunden Screentime hat, um von einem Nobody aus dem Flash Gordon-Knast ersetzt zu werden.
Einem BB-8, der nicht nur durch Kopframmen Poes X-Wing repariert, sondern auch eine ganze Wachmannschaft überwältigt, fesselt und dann einen "geköpften" AT-ST in einem Killingspree durch den Hangar führt, der nebenbei überall explodiert.
Snoke, der aussieht wie Hugh Heffner (Playboy).
Hux und Phasma, die praktisch NICHTS zuwege kriegen.

Dazu gleich zwei süße Alien-Rassen, die Poogs und diese Pferde mit langen Ohren. Natürlich drei Sklavenkinder, die nebenbei befreit werden und einen Rebellenring wie aus einem Kaugummi-Auomaten erhalten.

Ich hätte nie gedacht, dass ich das mal sagen würde, aber:

Im Vergleich zu Episode 8 gefallen mir sowohl die Episoden 1 als auch 2 relativ gut.
DAS hier ist für mich der bisherige Tiefpunkt der Star Wars-Saga.
Und das nachdem Disney mit Rogue One alles richtig gemacht hatte.

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Ah, der Fairness halber möchte ich zwei Punkte positiv herausheben.

1. Kylo Ren & Rey
Ich fand die Dynamik zwischen beiden Figuren gut und gerade die bidirektionale Annäherung hatte Potenzial zu mehr. Leider sind beide Figuren am Ende des Films moralisch wieder exakt dort gelandet, wo sie am Anfang waren. Kylo böse, Rey gut. Dennoch, die Ferndialogsszenen zwischen beiden gehören für mich zum Stärksten, was Episode 8 zu bieten hat.

2. CGI
Hyerspacejump durch die imperiale Flotte? Insgesamt einfach ein geiler CGI-Shot. Auch das Fehlen von Musik und Ton in dem Moment, großartig! Oder diese AT-ATs im Sonnenuntergang am Ende, wie gemalt! Dennoch, für mich hatte Abrams in E7 insgesamt mehr dieser optisch grandiosen Szenen. Das war, was mir neben Rey, Fynn und Kylo in E7 am besten gefallen hat, diese Bildgewalt! Abrams mag kein innovativer Storyteller sein, sondern eher ein Remix-DJ, er versteht es aber, die Filme in Szene zu setzen. In E8 dagegen gab es, was die Optik angeht, ein paar außerordntlich schöne Szenen, aber auch ein paar ... suboptimale. Licht und Schatten eben.

[Carl Nilfgaard]

*Spoiler-Alarm indeed*

Hallo zusammen. Also ich habe den Film gestern auch gesehen und meine 2 Cents:

Kleine Warnung vorweg:
- Ja der Humor an sich hat mich immer mal wieder etwas aus dem Film geholt. (Beispiel die Szene mit Hux und Dameron am Anfang)
- Die Machtfähigkeiten wurden im Vergleich zu ALLEN vorherigen Filmen teilweise schwer verstärkt dargestellt.
- Den Teil des Films mit dem Meisterhacker hätte man sich meinethalben prinzipiell sparen können, da es eigentlich nur dazu dient einen neuen Charakter einzuführen und tiefergehend zu behandeln, zu dem der Zuschauer bisher keine Verbindung hatte
- Der Vizeadmiral hat anscheinend keine Ahnung von Menschenführung ^^

Wer sich daran schwer stört wird mit dem Film definitiv keine Freude haben.

Mein allgemeines Fazit:

Ich hatte Spaß am Film. Ja das wird erschreckend für Einige sein, ich weiss. Die Charakterentwicklungen, von denen so einige nicht in den Filmen erklärt werden, finde ich auch aus persönlichen Erfahrungen nachvollziehbar.

Story zu deinen Anmerkungen habe ich eine Anmerkungen. Das bedeutet nicht dass ich deine Wertungen für Episode 8 für falsch halte, im Gegenteil ich finde die unterschiedlichen Perspektiven einfach interessant:

Lukes Verhalten am Anfang erinnert mich an eine Mischung aus einem Menschen der seine Vergangenheit regelrecht in die hinterletzte Ecke verdrängen will, als auch an einen alten Kampfkunst-Meister der nur einen Schüler nimmt, wenn dieser ihn vorher von seinem Wert und seinem Willen überzeugt. Erst später bricht die Schale der Verachtung und des eigenen Willens auf und zeigt den unverarbeiteten Schmerz und die erneute Angst vorm Versagen die er als Meister eigentlich überwunden hätte haben müssen. Hass halte ich persönlich für zu stark. Nach so vielen Jahren auf einem Planeten allein zerfressen vom Hass, hätte er Rey in schwarzen Klamotten, ein paar neuen Tattoos und einem tiefroten Lichtschwert begrüßen müssen. Insofern bewegt sich die Entwicklung von Luke Skywalker sogar vom Sunnyboy, zum ernsthatfen, nachdenklichen Ritter, zu einem von sich selbst enttäuschten, traumatisierten Eremiten der durch sein eigenes Verhalten Chaos und Vernichtung über die Galaxis brachte und gebrochen wurde vom Anspruch der Legende gerecht zu werden. (Der letzte Teil ist im Grunde Skywalkers Headcanon)  Mark Hamil spielt für mich hier viele an die Wand.

Poe Dameron: Japp der beste Pilot der Flotte der alleine durch feindliche Geschütztürme pflügt um relativ unbeschadet daraus hervorzugehen. In bester Tradition von Han Solo, der einen "Haufen Schrott", welcher knapp 10x so groß ist wie ein Tie-Fighter durch Lücken zu fliegen die die kleinen Tie-Fighter nie packen, der sich mit dieser Riesenzielscheibe dem ersten Todesstern nähern kann, ohne von deren Turbolasern zerpflückt oder einem Traktorstrahl eingefangen zu werden, als wenn alle Kannoniere, Sensoroffiziere und Funker gerade auf dem Klo sind. Das sind nur ein paar Beispiele, da kann man mehr rausholen, aber man muss ja nichts zerlegen. Beide zähle ich persönlich zu unbewussten Macht-Nutzern. Die gab es nämlich schon im alten Extended Universe. Merkmale sind zum Beispiel ein schweinisch großer Haufen Glück und "Können". Bei Dameron ist es nur mehr "In your Face", was ein generelles Problem heutzutage in Filmen ist.

Zu den "Humor"-Stellen, die haben mich selbst gestört, wenn auch nicht so sehr wie ein Jarjar.
Hux und Phasma hatten diesmal deutlich mehr Screentime, allerdings hatten diese außer Kommandieren in der Tat nicht viel zu bieten. Phasma bekam am Ende wenigstens einen doch nett choreographierten Kampf spendiert.

Den Ring fand ich persönlich auch etwas befremdlich zunächst, da ich diesen aber bei keinem anderen Rebellen sonst gesehen habe, gehe ich davon aus das "New Character" den selbst gebastelt hat. Würde zu ihrer Einstellung und zum Set an Fähigkeiten passen.

Episode 8 ist für mich definitv über Episode 7 und Episode 1+2 anzusiedeln.

Und Rogue One... mhhh ich weiss da mach ich mir hier keine Freunde mit unbedingt... der war gut... aber eben auch kein Meisterwerk. Woher weiss denn Saw dass sein Tentakelmonster das tut was er will? Wird nie erklärt wird hingenommen. Was macht Mon Mothma eigentlich nach Rogue One? Zwischen diesem Film und Rückkehr der Jedi liegen immerhin 4 Jahre innerhalb des Star Wars-Universums. Macht die Urlaub auf Endor? Warum stürmt Darth Vader erst alleine ein viel größeres Schiff um dann in Episode 4 doch erst seine Sturmtruppen auf eine viel kleinere Corvette loszuschicken? Feldpraxis? Und lass mich nicht mit Donnie Yens Charakter anfangen... der angeblich keine Machtfähigkeiten besitzt, aber im Grunde wie ein Jedi-Ritter vom Skript behandelt wird.

Auch dass kann ich im Grunde alles erklären wenn ich will, was die beiden Filme aber einfach grundsätzlich unterscheidet, ist in meinen Augen die Atmospähre. Rogue One ist der Versuch einen Kriegsfilm im Star Wars-Universum darzustellen ohne dass die ganze Zeit die Jedi und Sith die Klingen kreuzen und von "den kleinen Leuten" ablenken. Als solcher ist er gut und ich schau ihn mir immer wieder gerne an.

Die neuen Star Wars-Teile hingegen sind Filme die auf das Abenteuer aus sind, auf den Mystizismus und darauf eine spaßige Zeit zu erleben. Damit haben sie auch einfach komplett unterschiedliche Zielgruppen. Damit erklärt sich für mich einfach die Divergenz der Empfindung von Rogue One und den neuen Filmen.

In diesem Sinne. Viel Spaß allen.

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

Muss mich Carl anschließen, mir gefiel der Film super und ich würde ihn auch über 1+2+3+7 ansetzen. Sprich mir gefielen nur die Originalen und Rogue One besser.

Wer mal mit jemand der Burn Out hatte (richtiges) zu tun hatte der versteht Luke...
Ich verstehe das mit den Hyper Jumps, aber wer die Comics und wie das in Star Wars funktioniert kennt, der weiss das ist nicht so einfach. Darum ist Han Solo so ein genialer Schmuggler weil er so exakte Hyperjumps machen kann und nach "Gefühl" den Sprung beendet. Darum unterstellen ja so viele Fans, das Han Machtsensitiv ist, nur halt kein Jedi Training hat und darum Ben Solo so stark wurde.
Die Verfolgung ist dennoch nicht 100% fehlerfrei und Physik spielte bei Star Wars noch nie eine Rolle, aber das kann ich verschmerzen.

Die Rose/Finn Storyline ja die war die schwächere im Film, aber ich fand den Casino Planeten cool. Man merkt aber auch, dass die Zeit aus ging und daher manche Themen nur am Rand gestreift wurden.

Die einzige Kritik der ich zustimme (aber das gilt auch für Episoden 1-3 und teilweise sogar für Return of the Jedi) ist, dass mancher Humor OK ist, aber an manchen stellen ist er unnötig und unterbricht die Dramatik.
Was ich nicht gelten lasse ist, dass manche First Order Leute in hohen Positionen Idioten sind... ich meine die USA haben Trump als Präsident... Idioten kommen überall hoch vor allem im Militär und in der Politik, da gibt es sogar ein sensationelles Buch dazu wie die Kriege des letzten Jahrhunderts verlaufen wären, hätten die KI Computersimulationen gehabt...

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

This review is basically consistent with what I think of the movie:

https://youtu.be/9HsIrTS1jq0

[Mase Wolverine]

Ich war in der Premiere in Mainz und hatte den Eindruck, dass die Zuschauer sehr verhalten auf den Film reagiert haben.
In früheren Premieren sind Fans im Star Wars Outfit gekommen und es gab lautstark Applaus. Das hat diesmal komplett gefehlt.

Von meiner Seite sag ich. Das war ein Star Wars Film. Die Elemente, die ich erwarten würde waren enthalten.
Humor-Teile fand ich völlig überzogen. Das hätten die sich sparen sollen.

Ich weiß nicht, ob ich jetzt völlig falsch liege, aber was mich eigentlich am meisten stört, ist dass die Story mal gar nichts mit den Büchern zu tun hat.
Laut den Büchern hat Leia und Han 3 Kinder und Luke stirbt auf völlig andere Weise.

Naja, die meinsten Menschen wissen das sowieso nicht und werden den Film nur als SiFi, Action-Spektakel sehen.
Möge die Macht mit euch sein.

[Carl Nilfgaard]

Ich weiß nicht, ob ich jetzt völlig falsch liege, aber was mich eigentlich am meisten stört, ist dass die Story mal gar nichts mit den Büchern zu tun hat.
Laut den Büchern hat Leia und Han 3 Kinder und Luke stirbt auf völlig andere Weise.

Naja, die meinsten Menschen wissen das sowieso nicht und werden den Film nur als SiFi, Action-Spektakel sehen.
Möge die Macht mit euch sein.

Die Bücher & Spiele (sogenanntes Extended Universe) wurden damals als Disney übernommen hat erstmal komplett(?) Non-Canon erklärt und nun werden hin und wieder mit eingestrickt. Daher erklärt sich das vielleicht.

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Angry Joe nails it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL5oCP0VIEI

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

This one goes into quite some detail, but I am totally with Kristian Harloff on his review.
This includes total movie spoilers and a huge amount of explainers...

https://youtu.be/_r946-NCi4U

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Hier ein Blog von mir zum Thema - Achtung: ein paar Spoiler enthalten!

http://storytellers-mechwerkstatt.blogspot.de/2017/12/ist-das-noch-mein-star-wars-vorsicht.html

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

Hier ein Blog von mir zum Thema - Achtung: ein paar Spoiler enthalten!

http://storytellers-mechwerkstatt.blogspot.de/2017/12/ist-das-noch-mein-star-wars-vorsicht.html

Gut geschrieben, verstehe ich sehr gut den Standpunkt auch wenn ich ihn nicht teile.

Ich hab mir den Film ja ein zweites mal nun angekuckt und ich denke wir werden an der Nase herumgeführt.
Ich kann jeden nur empfehlen den Film "Looper" anzusehen. Es gibt in dem Film für alles sehr subtile Hinweise wo von den Hauptakteuren gelogen wird.
Schaut euch vor allem mal Snoke genau an und auch die Szene als Rey sich selbst sieht... die zwei Figuren die zu ihr werden, ebenso wie Kylo als er ihre Eltern erwähnt und wie er steht.
Achtet auch genau wie Luke aussieht am Salzplaneten...

Ist mir alles erst beim zweiten Mal aufgefallen.

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Hier ein Blog von mir zum Thema - Achtung: ein paar Spoiler enthalten!

http://storytellers-mechwerkstatt.blogspot.de/2017/12/ist-das-noch-mein-star-wars-vorsicht.html

Gut geschrieben, verstehe ich sehr gut den Standpunkt auch wenn ich ihn nicht teile.

Ich hab mir den Film ja ein zweites mal nun angekuckt und ich denke wir werden an der Nase herumgeführt.
Ich kann jeden nur empfehlen den Film "Looper" anzusehen. Es gibt in dem Film für alles sehr subtile Hinweise wo von den Hauptakteuren gelogen wird.
Schaut euch vor allem mal Snoke genau an und auch die Szene als Rey sich selbst sieht... die zwei Figuren die zu ihr werden, ebenso wie Kylo als er ihre Eltern erwähnt und wie er steht.
Achtet auch genau wie Luke aussieht am Salzplaneten...

Ist mir alles erst beim zweiten Mal aufgefallen.

Danke.

@Twists: Schön wär's, aber nach E8 habe ich keine Lust mehr auf Spekulationen. Ich gehe aktuelle davon aus, dass Snoke tot ist, Reys Eltern Nobodys waren und dass Luke maximal noch als Geist erscheint, um Rey ein wenig zu beraten. Einzig spannende Frage noch: Wie bringen sie Leia um? Mit Stil oder ohne?

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

What I am wondering is that many are talking about the Plot Holes in Episode VIII but see Rogue One as perfect.

Now do not get me wrong, Rogue One is my favourite Star Wars movie, I even have it #1 with Empire tied, but it has immense plot holes.

Krennic should know Jyn is a girl
When Orson Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) first pays his fated recruiting visit to Galen (Mads Mikkelsen) and Lyra Erso's (Valene Kane) rural hideaway, he makes a comment about the fact that the pair have a child together and to find "it"—no physical descriptions or gender mentions to aid her would-be captors in their search.

As much as we might like to think he's just being too woke to identify her by her gender, we're talking about the bad guy here. Plus, Galen only pretends Lyra's dead to fool Krennic, as though he might slip his daughter through the cracks without anyone noticing. But as Jyn's later flashback shows, Krennic has been in her presence before, when they were on a ship together and Galen was tucking her into bed with promises to always take care of her.

Lyra did not have to die
When Jyn (Felicity Jones) returns home with news of the impending ship's arrival, both her parents are already two steps ahead, packing their stuff and phoning Saw Gerrera (Forest Whitaker) to let him know they've got company. Saw tells them that they "know what to do," which entails Galen going out and pretending no one else is home while his wife and daughter scurry out to a hiding spot. But Lyra breaks the plan before it even begins and pulls a blaster on Krennic in a last-ditch attempt to keep him from taking Galen.

Was this part of their plan? There wasn't any chance of her single-handedly defeating Krennic and his crew, so aside from blind desperation, it's hard to understand what motivated Lyra—especially since she had to know she was dooming her daughter to a life without both of her parents. That cave bunker was surely big enough for two, and Jyn might've had a much better shot a life with at least her mother around. Lyra's death upped the emotional stakes, but there were plenty of more sensible ways to give Jyn reasons for hating the Empire.

Jyn should have had a harder time getting past Saw's soldiers
Okay, so Saw took Jyn in, raised her to be one of his finest soldiers, and then turned her loose while she was still a teenager because, according to him, she was close to being found out and would've been targeted for her relationship to her father. That's all well and good, but then when she does reconnect with Saw after so many years, she reveals her true identity directly to the very squad he supposedly protected her from, and they don't care at all. In fact, they show her deference. If Erso is persona non grata around those parts, why the sudden red carpet roll-out?

Saw shouldn't have been surprised by Galen's transmission
Saw is first presented as a close-knit pal of the Erso family who's in on all their plans, so Galen's decision to sabotage the Death Star's design shouldn't have come as a surprise—but he seemed pretty clueless while watching Galen's hologram message to Jyn. Either he and Galen never really had a plan in place,  or they weren't really friends in the first place—or Saw's mind was in the same beat-up condition as his body by that point.

Saw did not have to die
Did Forest Whitaker have something else to do for the second half of this film's shooting schedule? Because his decision to go down with the Jedha blast simply because he didn't want to run anymore seemed...abrupt. Maybe the screenwriters felt the character outlived his usefulness after giving Jyn a little information and a pep talk, but we can't help thinking his death represents a missed opportunity.

Mission to kill Daddy? Why?
The Crew knew the Death Star was ready, I mean the explosion was big... They knew the Empire had the plans already and if not totally stupid had copies of the weapon. So basically at this time Daddy and Krennic for that matter were both expendable and had no further potential.
Hence sending them on a mission to kill daddy was totally stupid and just a plot to make Jyn angry, which then she wasn't...

Jyn was not really upset about the Rebells killing daddy
Jyn and Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) were obviously supposed to be star-crossed lovers, which means the tension between them was elevated just a smidge, but something still doesn't quite compute. First she jumps down his throat for even thinking of assassinating her dad, even though he didn't. This anger is very understandable. But immediately after that she starts working with the people who actually did kill him. Does she only get mad at people she likes? She knew whose command Andor was acting under, so her failure to even side-eye the officer who issued the order was a bit bizarre.

The Rogue One gets away much too easily
Those rebels were pretty slack about letting an impounded Imperial ship with a rogue captain—and an Imperial defector, Bodhi Rook (Riz Ahmed), at that—just go off with a group of their troops. How they slipped onto the ship unnoticed in the first place is a mystery of Hollywood convenience since Cassian told them to bring "everything that isn't nailed down." But you'd think they'd at least try to stop the breakaways before they shoot off on a mission that completely counters the consensus of the council. Instead they watched them go.

Back in the hyperspace floppy disk generation
The time period of Rogue One took place before A New Hope, but that doesn't mean they had to be bound to the floppy disk generation. In an era where planet-sized force-field shields and light-speed space travel are a fact of life, you'd think they'd have a better method for sharing information than thick gold floppy disks or thumb drives. The only purpose those physical files really seemed to serve was ramping up the tension as the disk got passed from one hand to the next with Vader bearing down in the background. Which, admittedly, was mighty effective. But still could at least used data sticks that everyone seems to carry around and look a lot like dosimeters.

Vader just watches 'em go... twice
Vader evidently saw the Rebels were taking something and passing it on (thankfully a disk this time and not a full huge harddrive). While he was really badass it should have been easy as cake to snatch that card with the force or stop the runner and crunch him to the ceiling...
At the end, once the Rebel forces at Scarif manage to get in their escape pod with the Death Star plans, they depart from their main ship and float off into space ... really slowly. Darth Vader stands there just watching as they go, with his minions firing nary a blaster bolt in the direction of the escapees. They weren't even using hyperspeed yet, and we've just seen the skies going dark with TIE fighters. So why didn't anyone try to take them out before they made their way to Princess Leia with her "new hope"?

R2D2 and C3-PO could not be on Leias ship
Since we saw them at the Rebel Base directly before the Rogue One crew departed. Beam me up R2?

Vader stands back in Episode IV?
In Rogue One Vader enters the much bigger ship totally alone, dismantling the enemy and then (hours?) after tracking Leia's ship he lets a bunch of Stormtroopers go in first?

Leia on diplomatic mission?
Why is she trying to bullshit Vader in Episode IV when he SAW her fly away in her ship from Scarif?

Rogue One made Episode IV unnecessary actually...
When it becomes apparent that they cannot escape Scarif before the Death Star arrives, Jyn and Cassian race to the transmissions tower in order to send the technical readouts to the Rebel fleet. Despite their ultimate demise, they do succeed, and the plans are received by Admiral Raddus's crew and sent from ship to ship, into the hands of Princess Leia.

So, the question remains, if these plans are remotely transmittable, is the plot of A New Hope even necessary? Why send a droid across the galaxy, risking the capture of your ONLY COPY of the plans, when you can simply send it to your allies?

And if you're going to justify this plothole by claiming that Leia was not within range of the Rebel base, then you're forcing us to ask: Why did Raddus send the one physical copy to the Tantive IV? Why wasn't there copy transmitted? And why was it not transmitted to other ships? It seems a great many deaths to come in A New Hope could have been avoided.

I still love the movie

[Hatake "Storyteller" Matsumura]

Noone said there are no plotholes in Rogue One. But there are far less and most of them not so important ones.

My comments to your list:

Krennic should know Jyn is a girl
When Orson Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) first pays his fated recruiting visit to Galen (Mads Mikkelsen) and Lyra Erso's (Valene Kane) rural hideaway, he makes a comment about the fact that the pair have a child together and to find "it"—no physical descriptions or gender mentions to aid her would-be captors in their search.

There are only three people around: Galen, Erso and Jyn - "They have a child" is a sufficient description for these Elite Stormtroopers, when noone else is around for miles.

Lyra did not have to die
When Jyn (Felicity Jones) returns home with news of the impending ship's arrival, both her parents are already two steps ahead, packing their stuff and phoning Saw Gerrera (Forest Whitaker) to let him know they've got company. Saw tells them that they "know what to do," which entails Galen going out and pretending no one else is home while his wife and daughter scurry out to a hiding spot. But Lyra breaks the plan before it even begins and pulls a blaster on Krennic in a last-ditch attempt to keep him from taking Galen.

She surely didn't had to die, but she loved her husband too much. When I saw this scene with my wife I asked her, what she would have done. Sitting on our couch in our warm house, no real threat to be seen. After a while she said, taking our kids to safety. I think this would have been the right decision. But in extreme emotional situations, people tend to react irrational. You can buy this or not, but reality shows: Lyras decision is not unrealistic.

Was this part of their plan? There wasn't any chance of her single-handedly defeating Krennic and his crew, so aside from blind desperation, it's hard to understand what motivated Lyra—especially since she had to know she was dooming her daughter to a life without both of her parents. That cave bunker was surely big enough for two, and Jyn might've had a much better shot a life with at least her mother around. Lyra's death upped the emotional stakes, but there were plenty of more sensible ways to give Jyn reasons for hating the Empire.

I think their plan was only to save Lyra and Jyn and maybe Galen can escape at some point later or even to sacrifice oneself. The last one is a good point for Lyras motivation to skip the plan and go after Krennic and Galen.

Jyn should have had a harder time getting past Saw's soldiers
Okay, so Saw took Jyn in, raised her to be one of his finest soldiers, and then turned her loose while she was still a teenager because, according to him, she was close to being found out and would've been targeted for her relationship to her father. That's all well and good, but then when she does reconnect with Saw after so many years, she reveals her true identity directly to the very squad he supposedly protected her from, and they don't care at all. In fact, they show her deference. If Erso is persona non grata around those parts, why the sudden red carpet roll-out?

Why? She is the daughter of one of the most important collaborators of the Empire, a higly educated weapons scientist. Galen Erso well known and Jyn fought within Saws organisation until she was 16 years old. After she revealed her identiy, at least Saws right hand must have recognized her, understanding her importance. Especially when the pilot Brody and Galens message was found days before.

Saw shouldn't have been surprised by Galen's transmission
Saw is first presented as a close-knit pal of the Erso family who's in on all their plans, so Galen's decision to sabotage the Death Star's design shouldn't have come as a surprise—but he seemed pretty clueless while watching Galen's hologram message to Jyn. Either he and Galen never really had a plan in place,  or they weren't really friends in the first place—or Saw's mind was in the same beat-up condition as his body by that point.

I have to rewatch this scene to check on Saw. I've seen RO about 12 times now and I was alwas focussed on Jyn and her reaction, which was one of the best scenes in the whole movie. She was sucking up all the images and infos, like someone dying of thirst getting some water. It's been the first time she has seen her father in over a decade... Sorry I didn't took notice if Saw and how he reacts.

Saw did not have to die
Did Forest Whitaker have something else to do for the second half of this film's shooting schedule? Because his decision to go down with the Jedha blast simply because he didn't want to run anymore seemed...abrupt. Maybe the screenwriters felt the character outlived his usefulness after giving Jyn a little information and a pep talk, but we can't help thinking his death represents a missed opportunity.

Did you see Jyn and the others running like hell and how close their escape was? If they would have waited on the widely disabled Saw Gerrera (both feets were missing, he was walking rather slowly in every scene, he had to use a breathing mask once in a while), they would have died all on Jedda. Saw knew this and I think he knew that finally his long war of over 20 years and all those losses were coming to an end. Enough is sometimes simply enough.

Mission to kill Daddy? Why?
The Crew knew the Death Star was ready, I mean the explosion was big... They knew the Empire had the plans already and if not totally stupid had copies of the weapon. So basically at this time Daddy and Krennic for that matter were both expendable and had no further potential.
Hence sending them on a mission to kill daddy was totally stupid and just a plot to make Jyn angry, which then she wasn't...

The reason was given in the dialoge between Cassian and General Draven. He feared that Galen Erso was already working on further weapons. He didn't believe in Jyns story. He was placing a safe bet: Kill the traitor cooperator als long as they have the chance to and the Empire does not hide him somewhere else. I think this was a stupid decision, but Draven was pictured as a hardliner from the start. So this was in character. Remember: Draven has never seen Galen himself. He didn't know that he was a good man in his heart. For him he was just another "Wernher von Braun" or "Willy Messerschmidt", working for the Space Nazis. So he had to die.

Jyn was not really upset about the Rebells killing daddy
Jyn and Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) were obviously supposed to be star-crossed lovers, which means the tension between them was elevated just a smidge, but something still doesn't quite compute. First she jumps down his throat for even thinking of assassinating her dad, even though he didn't. This anger is very understandable. But immediately after that she starts working with the people who actually did kill him. Does she only get mad at people she likes? She knew whose command Andor was acting under, so her failure to even side-eye the officer who issued the order was a bit bizarre.

I agree to this, it would have been more realistic if she had shown any reaction at the direct confrontation with General Draven. I can only guess: After the fight with Cassian, this would have only been some kind of repitition of the same conflict and it would have slowed the pace of the movie going into its final act. So yes, it's a minor plothole, but nothing more. Draven and Jyn were not friends in the following scenes.

The Rogue One gets away much too easily
Those rebels were pretty slack about letting an impounded Imperial ship with a rogue captain—and an Imperial defector, Bodhi Rook (Riz Ahmed), at that—just go off with a group of their troops. How they slipped onto the ship unnoticed in the first place is a mystery of Hollywood convenience since Cassian told them to bring "everything that isn't nailed down." But you'd think they'd at least try to stop the breakaways before they shoot off on a mission that completely counters the consensus of the council. Instead they watched them go.

The Captain was not a rogue at that point, he was a renown and highly decorated secret service man with a team full of covert-ops soliders. Yes, they could have filled in a scene where they take out some guard or try to talk their way out, but I think this would have slowed the movie down again. So yes, a minor plothole, but I think this gang of specialists, lead by Captain Cassian Andor, a well know Rebel soldier and hero officer, they will not have any problems to take this shuttle by treason and/or force.

Back in the hyperspace floppy disk generation
The time period of Rogue One took place before A New Hope, but that doesn't mean they had to be bound to the floppy disk generation. In an era where planet-sized force-field shields and light-speed space travel are a fact of life, you'd think they'd have a better method for sharing information than thick gold floppy disks or thumb drives. The only purpose those physical files really seemed to serve was ramping up the tension as the disk got passed from one hand to the next with Vader bearing down in the background. Which, admittedly, was mighty effective. But still could at least used data sticks that everyone seems to carry around and look a lot like dosimeters.

Yeah, I know... I was thinking the same when I watched RO the first time. It hink it was just because to stay in the style and art of Episode IV, which was made in 1977, when floppy disks were state of the art. I think we have to accept this just because its the prelude to a 1970s movie.

Vader just watches 'em go... twice
Vader evidently saw the Rebels were taking something and passing it on (thankfully a disk this time and not a full huge harddrive). While he was really badass it should have been easy as cake to snatch that card with the force or stop the runner and crunch him to the ceiling...
At the end, once the Rebel forces at Scarif manage to get in their escape pod with the Death Star plans, they depart from their main ship and float off into space ... really slowly. Darth Vader stands there just watching as they go, with his minions firing nary a blaster bolt in the direction of the escapees. They weren't even using hyperspeed yet, and we've just seen the skies going dark with TIE fighters. So why didn't anyone try to take them out before they made their way to Princess Leia with her "new hope"?

I am with you with this one. Even though I like the look and drama of this scene, in terms of coherence I hate it. I know George Lucas' original storybook, which he transferred into a radio drama. In this Leia was never around Scarif. She got the plans somewhere else, transmitted from a Rebel scout ship, previously fleeing from the battle for the plans. The second before the Tantive IV jumps to Tatooine, Vaders Imperial Star Destroyers shows up and Leia and Captain Antilles talk about, if the Imperials had caught their ID or not. This would be much more logical, but it would have been less dramatic and it would have made the movie even longer. So I am sad and happy at the same time about the ending of Rogue One.

R2D2 and C3-PO could not be on Leias ship
Since we saw them at the Rebel Base directly before the Rogue One crew departed. Beam me up R2?

Oh common, they could have gotten onto a shuttle and beeing transfered to the Rebel cruiser easily and making the jump with the assembled fleet. This is no plothole.

Vader stands back in Episode IV?
In Rogue One Vader enters the much bigger ship totally alone, dismantling the enemy and then (hours?) after tracking Leia's ship he lets a bunch of Stormtroopers go in first?

Again it's for drama. In RO they wanted to show at least one lightsabre and Vader as a badass. There could be good reasons for not going in first in E4 ANH, but yes, this is at least questionable.

Leia on diplomatic mission?
Why is she trying to bullshit Vader in Episode IV when he SAW her fly away in her ship from Scarif?

See above, George Lucas had written this differently and yes, in the original script she was officially on a diplomatic mission, while she was smuggling supplies for people who suffered from the Empire. Like I said before, in terms of the plot I would have preferred the original storyline, but it would have been less drama.

Rogue One made Episode IV unnecessary actually...
When it becomes apparent that they cannot escape Scarif before the Death Star arrives, Jyn and Cassian race to the transmissions tower in order to send the technical readouts to the Rebel fleet. Despite their ultimate demise, they do succeed, and the plans are received by Admiral Raddus's crew and sent from ship to ship, into the hands of Princess Leia.

I don't get this. Where's the plothole?

So, the question remains, if these plans are remotely transmittable, is the plot of A New Hope even necessary? Why send a droid across the galaxy, risking the capture of your ONLY COPY of the plans, when you can simply send it to your allies?

Because the original plans were captured all together with Admiral Raddus's crew and ship. Only the copy on Leias ship escaped the battle.

And if you're going to justify this plothole by claiming that Leia was not within range of the Rebel base, then you're forcing us to ask: Why did Raddus send the one physical copy to the Tantive IV? Why wasn't there copy transmitted? And why was it not transmitted to other ships? It seems a great many deaths to come in A New Hope could have been avoided.

The plans were huge and time was running out. I don't think they had the time to transmit the plans safely to another ship by wire. Especially when Vaders ISD is around. Now you could ask, why the Tantive IV was not shut down or caught. Yes, this is a plothole like I mentioned before. And it's always the same one. Gareth Edwards picked this because of drama and the great visual ending - but it is not logical. If you are looking for big plotholes, this is the one in Rogue One and I complained about it right after I saw the movie the first time. Especially because I have heard the radio drama years ago and so this was Kanon until Disney took over.
I understand why Edwards and Lucasfilm chose this ending and from the scenes I love it dearly, but it still burns in my mind, because it doesn't make sense. But so far it is only one big plothole at the very ending, which I can accept, because - for a Sci-Fi-Fantasy movie - the rest of Rogue One is quite logical and the only huge plothole looks great.

I still love the movie

Me too.

[Hoshi "Terry" Toranaga]

Did not need those comments every plothole can have a fun explanation...

Hyperjumps are not precise enough for example, that is why Han Solo is so famous and thought to be force sensitive, because he can navigate Hyperspace on instinct like only old Jedi could. (This is why one theory is that Rey is Hans child but not Leias, I doubt it, but fun theory)

The Resistance had a cloaking device and only after DJ gave them the signal they could see the transports.

I could go on, but I do not have the stamina you have